<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" 	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Inorganic farming</title>
	<atom:link href="http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/</link>
	<description>Crops, animals, wild relatives ...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:33:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-808717</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-808717</guid>
		<description>Tom&#039;s entry on the 18th concerns tomatoes.  

In a much more rigorous way, he basically says what I did below on multi-gene resistance.  It&#039;s just not that simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom&#8217;s entry on the 18th concerns tomatoes.  </p>
<p>In a much more rigorous way, he basically says what I did below on multi-gene resistance.  It&#8217;s just not that simple.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-808666</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-808666</guid>
		<description>Tom&#039;s blog entry of August 18 explains his late blight resistance work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom&#8217;s blog entry of August 18 explains his late blight resistance work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luigi</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-807832</link>
		<dc:creator>Luigi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-807832</guid>
		<description>And so it comes full circle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And so it comes full circle.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DannyH</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-807823</link>
		<dc:creator>DannyH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-807823</guid>
		<description>And that breeding club and programme was based on Raoul&#039;s ideas which are covered in detail in the Return to Resistance book mentioned above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that breeding club and programme was based on Raoul&#8217;s ideas which are covered in detail in the Return to Resistance book mentioned above.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-807532</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-807532</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jacob, for bringing us back to the subject at hand, and for the good article. Pretty toxic it is, copper. How unfortunate that the spray trial at Oregon State found it to be more effective than composted tea leaves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jacob, for bringing us back to the subject at hand, and for the good article. Pretty toxic it is, copper. How unfortunate that the spray trial at Oregon State found it to be more effective than composted tea leaves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-807213</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-807213</guid>
		<description>Hi Karl,

I think you&#039;re probably right, there is competition in the way you say.

While health care is being debated in the US, and the issue of a need for a public or non-profit insurer to compete with the existing health insurance companies, it makes me wonder if we need something like that for the seed companies.  There are so few seed companies by now supplying mainstream farmers, and I don&#039;t really see a lot of genuine competition between them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Karl,</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re probably right, there is competition in the way you say.</p>
<p>While health care is being debated in the US, and the issue of a need for a public or non-profit insurer to compete with the existing health insurance companies, it makes me wonder if we need something like that for the seed companies.  There are so few seed companies by now supplying mainstream farmers, and I don&#8217;t really see a lot of genuine competition between them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Inoculated Mind</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-806522</link>
		<dc:creator>Inoculated Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-806522</guid>
		<description>&quot;Since most seed companies sell both chemicals and seeds, their business model is very much tied to selling these two things together. There is simply less profit is selling varieties that don’t need chemicals.&quot;
I would like to point out that some of these chemicals, such as insecticides, are being actively undermined by some of their genetic engineering projects. Indeed, I sat in on a presentation by someone from Pioneer Hi-Bred, in which they pointed out that they sell an insecticide for rootworm beetles (I think this was the one), and also developed a rootworm-resistant transgenic, thereby undercutting their sales of the insecticide.
Why would they cut off a revenue stream like this? It seems counterintuitive by your reasoning above. But it makes a lot of sense if you think about the competition between companies that are generating these traits. If Monsanto develops a rootworm-resistant transgenic, (as they have) then their seed sales will undercut Pioneer&#039;s insecticide sales. So it is in Pioneer&#039;s business interests to undercut their own insectide with their own transgenic plants before Monsanto does it first. That&#039;s the motivation. Moreover, if the seed companies can make money off of selling seeds that reduce farmer&#039;s costs (fewer sprayings of herbicide, pesticide, fungicide, fertilizer, etc) then they have a financial motivation to generate crops that reduce or eliminate these farm inputs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Since most seed companies sell both chemicals and seeds, their business model is very much tied to selling these two things together. There is simply less profit is selling varieties that don’t need chemicals.&#8221;<br />
I would like to point out that some of these chemicals, such as insecticides, are being actively undermined by some of their genetic engineering projects. Indeed, I sat in on a presentation by someone from Pioneer Hi-Bred, in which they pointed out that they sell an insecticide for rootworm beetles (I think this was the one), and also developed a rootworm-resistant transgenic, thereby undercutting their sales of the insecticide.<br />
Why would they cut off a revenue stream like this? It seems counterintuitive by your reasoning above. But it makes a lot of sense if you think about the competition between companies that are generating these traits. If Monsanto develops a rootworm-resistant transgenic, (as they have) then their seed sales will undercut Pioneer&#8217;s insecticide sales. So it is in Pioneer&#8217;s business interests to undercut their own insectide with their own transgenic plants before Monsanto does it first. That&#8217;s the motivation. Moreover, if the seed companies can make money off of selling seeds that reduce farmer&#8217;s costs (fewer sprayings of herbicide, pesticide, fungicide, fertilizer, etc) then they have a financial motivation to generate crops that reduce or eliminate these farm inputs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-805457</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-805457</guid>
		<description>&quot;However, if there are lines that work, then why aren’t they used? If they work, then surely farmers would demand and seed companies would supply. Or maybe they are used and I just don’t know about it?&quot;

I&#039;m not in a position to say much about how they are currently used, but I can certainly offer some of the reasons why seed companies are not interested in offering them.

Since most seed companies sell both chemicals and seeds, their business model is very much tied to selling these two things together.  There is simply less profit is selling varieties that don&#039;t need chemicals.  There are sometimes direct or indirect subsidies that offset the costs of these chemicals, meaning farmers often don&#039;t mind using them.

There are different ways in different places seed companies can use to protect their intellectual property, and these methods often aren&#039;t available for existing or order varieties, rather they would need to create something new.  In addition, many existing varieties are not suitable for commercial production, would require investments in time and money and for whatever reason they may not think this is worthwhile.  Perhaps they are looking at the situation financially now, doing the calculation of the costs of investments and not expecting to see an increase in profit if they did something else.

I don&#039;t know about in the US, but here in Europe, farmers are not generally in a position to demand varieties.  Mostly it&#039;s the seed companies that create varieties, and the farmers have to buy them.  I suspect this is the case in many places in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, if there are lines that work, then why aren’t they used? If they work, then surely farmers would demand and seed companies would supply. Or maybe they are used and I just don’t know about it?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not in a position to say much about how they are currently used, but I can certainly offer some of the reasons why seed companies are not interested in offering them.</p>
<p>Since most seed companies sell both chemicals and seeds, their business model is very much tied to selling these two things together.  There is simply less profit is selling varieties that don&#8217;t need chemicals.  There are sometimes direct or indirect subsidies that offset the costs of these chemicals, meaning farmers often don&#8217;t mind using them.</p>
<p>There are different ways in different places seed companies can use to protect their intellectual property, and these methods often aren&#8217;t available for existing or order varieties, rather they would need to create something new.  In addition, many existing varieties are not suitable for commercial production, would require investments in time and money and for whatever reason they may not think this is worthwhile.  Perhaps they are looking at the situation financially now, doing the calculation of the costs of investments and not expecting to see an increase in profit if they did something else.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about in the US, but here in Europe, farmers are not generally in a position to demand varieties.  Mostly it&#8217;s the seed companies that create varieties, and the farmers have to buy them.  I suspect this is the case in many places in the world.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-805441</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-805441</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I like threaded commenting in posts...  It sure causes the discussions to go in different directions!

Anyway, I think if someone could find the answer to you question, they would make a fortune.  Unfortunately, no one has figured it out yet.

Being the kind of person I am, I think the root of the problem lies with issues of biodiversity.  Instead of trying to create the ultimate multi-gene resistant tomato, the answer is three-fold.

First global warming, changing weather patters and general climate degradation all play major roles in plant diseases.  I think we need to address this, and recognize it&#039;s one of the most important underlying problems behind this and many other plant diseases.

Secondly, large mono-culture swaths of diseased potatoes grown without proper rotations appear to be the major hosts of late blight.  If we deal with this, we will have considerably less of a problem.

Finally, late blight is not a single plant disease.  It&#039;s a very regional problem, resistant plants in the US are not necessarily resistant in Europe, and so on.  It&#039;s also a very rapidly evolving disease, and now that different strains appear able to combine it&#039;s DNA (sexual reproduction), it looks set to be even faster evolving.  It&#039;s just not going to happen that we find a single totally resistant variety, a solution is only going to come by being able to rapidly produce new varieties on a regional basis.  This probably has to come down to the level of individual gardens, and people will need to know how to breed and select their own varieties.

I think this all applies to both tomatoes and potatoes, as well as many other plants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I like threaded commenting in posts&#8230;  It sure causes the discussions to go in different directions!</p>
<p>Anyway, I think if someone could find the answer to you question, they would make a fortune.  Unfortunately, no one has figured it out yet.</p>
<p>Being the kind of person I am, I think the root of the problem lies with issues of biodiversity.  Instead of trying to create the ultimate multi-gene resistant tomato, the answer is three-fold.</p>
<p>First global warming, changing weather patters and general climate degradation all play major roles in plant diseases.  I think we need to address this, and recognize it&#8217;s one of the most important underlying problems behind this and many other plant diseases.</p>
<p>Secondly, large mono-culture swaths of diseased potatoes grown without proper rotations appear to be the major hosts of late blight.  If we deal with this, we will have considerably less of a problem.</p>
<p>Finally, late blight is not a single plant disease.  It&#8217;s a very regional problem, resistant plants in the US are not necessarily resistant in Europe, and so on.  It&#8217;s also a very rapidly evolving disease, and now that different strains appear able to combine it&#8217;s DNA (sexual reproduction), it looks set to be even faster evolving.  It&#8217;s just not going to happen that we find a single totally resistant variety, a solution is only going to come by being able to rapidly produce new varieties on a regional basis.  This probably has to come down to the level of individual gardens, and people will need to know how to breed and select their own varieties.</p>
<p>I think this all applies to both tomatoes and potatoes, as well as many other plants.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anastasia</title>
		<link>http://agro.biodiver.se/2009/08/inorganic-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-805438</link>
		<dc:creator>Anastasia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agro.biodiver.se/?p=7818#comment-805438</guid>
		<description>Robert, sorry for the age of the article - it was the best review I could find. 2006 isn&#039;t that old, though, even in a fast moving field. I poked around a bit more and found the 2006 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1824786&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Overexpression of defense response genes in transgenic wheat enhances resistance to Fusarium head blight&lt;/a&gt; (neat because it uses &lt;a href=&quot;http://geneticmaize.squarespace.com/blog/2008/5/2/but-how-safe-is-it-on-transgenics-cisgenics-and-mutants.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;cisgenes&lt;/a&gt; from wheat or wheat relatives) and the 2008 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2635614&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Antibody-mediated Prevention of Fusarium Mycotoxins in the Field&lt;/a&gt;  (neat because it solves a problem that, according to the authors, hasn&#039;t been solvable with breeding).  Note that neither of these is happening in the US and neither was funded by corporations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, sorry for the age of the article &#8211; it was the best review I could find. 2006 isn&#8217;t that old, though, even in a fast moving field. I poked around a bit more and found the 2006 <a href="http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1824786" rel="nofollow">Overexpression of defense response genes in transgenic wheat enhances resistance to Fusarium head blight</a> (neat because it uses <a href="http://geneticmaize.squarespace.com/blog/2008/5/2/but-how-safe-is-it-on-transgenics-cisgenics-and-mutants.html" rel="nofollow">cisgenes</a> from wheat or wheat relatives) and the 2008 <a href="http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2635614" rel="nofollow">Antibody-mediated Prevention of Fusarium Mycotoxins in the Field</a>  (neat because it solves a problem that, according to the authors, hasn&#8217;t been solvable with breeding).  Note that neither of these is happening in the US and neither was funded by corporations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

